we're about to judge the worth and value of a man, the president of the united states, in this election. do we use the right criteria? >> no. you know, i think one of the reasons i got interested in doing this piece, kind of walking in obama's life, was it struck me just looking at it from afar that some of the problems that used to affect the evaluation of pro athletes pro sports has gotten over, sort of like how to separate out luck from skill and how not to blame, you know, assigning credit and blame where credit and blame is due on a baseball field, but we don't really do in political life, especially with the president. he's forever credited and blamed for things that he actually has often very little control over. >> you played a kind of game with the president where you said to him, mr. president, let's assume you're no longer president and i'm president, meaning you. >> yeah. >> what are the things i need to know about this job? and you took a few passes. >> i had to do it a few times. it took him a little while for him to get used to the idea that i was president. he didn't lik